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Q3 2020 Just Energy Group Inc Earnings Call TORONTO Feb 17, 2020 (Thomson Street Events) -- Edited Transcript of Just Energy Group Inc earnings conference call or presentation Monday, February 10, 2020 at pm GMTTEXT version of Transcript================================================================================Corporate Participants================================================================================* James Brown Just Energy Group Inc. Riley FBR, Inc., Research Division - Analyst* Nelson Ng RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst* Raveel Afzaal Canaccord Genuity Corp., Research Division - Analyst================================================================================Presentation--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Operator [1]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Just Energy Third Quarter Fiscal 2020 Results Conference Call. - CEO, President & Director [2]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thank you, operator. - CEO, President & Director================================================================================Conference Call Participants================================================================================* Christopher Ralph Van Horn B. (Operator Instructions)I would now like to hand your conference over to your speaker today, Scott Gahn, CEO. And please go ahead, sir.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------R. I'd like to welcome everybody on the phone to the Q3 Fiscal 2020 Earnings Call for Just Energy Group Inc. As the operator said, I am the CEO of Just Energy, and I'm going to be providing some comments regarding our quarter, our fiscal year-to-date, the things that we're working on and things we're doing right and some things that we plan to work on that we can do a little better. And then I'll turn it over to Jim Brown, who will provide more detail and give you some of the numbers, and then we'll have, as the operator said, a question-answer session afterwards. But I'd like to talk about a few things that we're doing that are right. So first, I'm not going to surprise anybody on the call in expressing my disappointment with the quarter. We've -- we missed the quarter, EBITDA by $20 million, and we guided down for the balance of the year. They are fixing our business, and then I'll finish up with a few things that I think we need to get better on and work on. And so we went after that, put a team of people on it to figure out what it was that happened and expanded that team to shut it down. So the first of the things we're doing right is our Texas bad debt. When you're in a business that's a 20% gross margin business, you take $130 million write-down to AR, that's $100 million of cash. And the first thing we did was we shut down the paths of customers who were not going to pay us into our book. That was -- the impairment we took was very difficult. And we shut those down, prevented them from getting in. Then we identified the customers that had already gotten in our book, that were high-risk and we have worked them out of the book. There's still some residual high-risk customers in the book, but I think we've got it largely worked out. And all the things we did to do this were the right things to do. But to give you an example of where we are, our December bad debt is at 4%. This compares to the high that we reached in March of this fiscal year of 10% bad debt. And to give you the idea of the impact that it has, a 1% change in Texas bad debt is worth about $1 million of EBITDA a month. And I would say of the work that we've done since I've come on as CEO, the control of the bad debt and getting that under control is the one that we've made the most progress on. In addition, though, one of the things that came out of all the work we did on bad debt, the deep dive we took into our customer book was we started to recognize the obvious relationship and depth of the relationship between bad debt and attrition. But in addition to that, we found that a lot of our attrition and bad debt were disproportionately in the early 10-year phase of our customer slides in our book. And so that -- in less than 90 days, we had a lot of bad debt, a lot of attrition coming early on, and that we're getting a lot of value out of the longer-tenured customers who were producing the bulk of the gross margin. First of all, we found that improving bad debt lowered attrition, and we're seeing that. You're not going to see it in the trailing 12-month metrics that we send out for a few more months. But the operational metrics that we look at, which are weekly and monthly metrics, we're seeing a significant improvement in our attrition rates as well as the bad debt, but the correlated attrition has gotten better. Additionally, we changed the way we treat customers at the end of contract term, recognizing the value that they produce for us and are seeing improvements as a result of treating them differently, pricing them differently, addressing end-of-term differently than we have in the past, we're seeing an improvement in our renewal rates as well. And so again, you'll start to see that as we continue to perform this way in the trailing 12-month metrics. But in our operational metrics that we run the business on, we're seeing it already. Both of these things will help us to bring the company back to positive sales growth. And the last thing I would say, as we've done these deep dives in all of our customers is we've confirmed what we thought and that is the positive customer attributes are positively correlated. Higher credit customers are generally bigger and stickier. I'd like to move from that to another area that I think we've made some progress, although I think there's more work to be done on, and that is cost cutting. We've cut about $60 million out of our G&A and noncommission selling expenses. And we've sold our Georgia book, which is a noncore asset that didn't have growth, and we were able to get some cash from that. I want to say a little bit more about the noncommission selling because it's somewhat masked in the way we report our financials. business, which is -- even though we didn't get as much as we had hoped to get for it, it got rid of a lot of liability for us. Now I'd like to turn to what we need to do that we haven't done a good job on, and that is our sales. Fixing the enrollment controls to control our bad debt was the right thing to do, but the negative impact on sales was greater than we had anticipated. Noncommission selling expense is, I call it, sales overhead. The third thing I'd like to talk about that we've done right is we've trimmed our geographic footprint. We're launching 2 sales campaigns this quarter to try to restore momentum and increase customer additions, but keeping it within the enhanced enrollment controls so that we don't end up where we were last year. It has some other expenses in there, but a lot of it's sales overhead. Both of these campaigns are going to be very closely monitored over the balance of this quarter. It's included in our selling and marketing expenses on our income statement. And my hope is that I'll be able to report on some positive impact at the year-end announcement that we make in May. And what's happened in Q3 is we have cut $8 million out of our noncommission selling expense, but the amortization of commission has gone up by $7.6 million. It looks like we're actually flat, but we've cut those costs out. And finally, I'll say a few words about the credit facility. Jim will have a lot more to say about this in his comments. We engaged them in December to renew the facility, and we continue to negotiate with them on the terms of that renewal. And as I said, Jim will be able to give you a little more color in his remarks. But in closing my remarks, the things we've been doing over the last 6 months to fix our company are the right things to do. It's just taken a little longer than we had hoped, but it is coming and the things we're doing are the right things to do. You can talk about the numbers for the quarter.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [3]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thank you, Scott. As Scott noted, the efforts and critical choices we made over the last 6 months since Scott joined as CEO lay the groundwork to continue our strategic review process, drive out costs, improve efficiencies and give us flexibility on our balance sheet. However, Scott and I are not satisfied with the results, and now we must continue to evaluate every facet of the business to drive shareholder value. We continue to take actions to strengthen the company. In the second half of calendar 2019, management focused on cost cutting, reducing Cap Ex to levels that maintain our core gross margin, and creating a trajectory to full stability. As we progress forward in 20, management will be focused on profitable sales growth and improvements to revenues and gross margin. We've now successfully exit some noncore markets, disposing of our U. and Ireland operations as well as execution of the sale of our customer contracts and natural gas storage in the state of Georgia. These changes to our business structure allow us to simplify the business, reduce overhead and concentrate our stronger growth and higher-margin operations in core North American markets. Turning to some key performance metrics for the third quarter. The decline was primarily due to the lower residential customer base, which is in part the result of strict enrollment controls in Texas combined with mild effects of weather in October and December. While annual gross margin per RCE for customers added in the third quarter was down by 21%, the company continues to optimize the relationship between customer gross margin per RCE of customers signed, customer acquisition costs and customer lifetime value. There have been some adjustments to our existing channels and the emerging channels to lower acquisition margins to optimize the relationship between these 3 variables. It is important to understand that there are no residual risks associated with the U. business as there are no working capital true-ups other than the potential upside from contingent consideration related to capacity that we previously mentioned. Base EBITDA from continuing operations of 38% (sic) [$38 million] declined 34%, driven by declines in gross margin as well as higher commission expense, amortization of previously capitalized residential customer costs offset by lower overhead costs. Through enrollment controls and rigorous collections in Texas, the company has achieved run rates consistent with fis year 2018 and expects the trends to continue or improve. There were significant improvements in year-to-date fis year 2020 free cash flow versus fis year 2019 of approximately $95 million. However, if you add back the onetime impairment charge related to Texas residential enrollments and collections to the prior comparable quarter, base EBITDA increased 68% year-over-year. This has been achieved through cost reductions in overheads, improvement in return on customer acquisition costs deployed, reduced capital expenditures, improvement in the management of bad debt and the elimination of investments required for our international operations. This performance reflects renewed focus on attracting and retaining high-quality customers. In addition to improvements in free cash flow, the company has suspended its common dividend and suspended its preferred dividend until certain lender criteria have been met. I want to highlight the improvements in bad debt expense that Scott mentioned. Liquidity is the main focus of the management team. And over time, the previously discussed corrective actions, reduced costs and Cap Ex as well as discontinuing dividends will continue to stabilize liquidity. The company is in active discussions with its senior lender group to renegotiate and extend the company's credit facility. Also the company has worked with key suppliers over time to extend payment terms as an ongoing source of liquidity. Administrative expenses from continuing operations declined 5% to $39.6 million for the quarter. Excluding the impact of strategic review costs of $4.2 million for the quarter, administrative expenses decreased 15%. These improvements were driven by savings realized from business restructuring initiatives that took place at the end of fiscal 2019 as well as subsequent opportunities to streamline and simplify the business and reduce overhead. As Scott previously mentioned, selling and marketing expenses of $51.3 million were flat compared to the prior year. While the comparison to the prior year is flat, as Scott mentioned, it is important to understand that selling and marketing expenses has 2 components: first, direct-to-customer acquisition costs that are capitalized and amortized over the life of the customer; and the second is selling overhead. While amortization of customer acquisition costs is higher for the third quarter than the prior year, selling overhead is down $8 million, as Scott had mentioned, in the third quarter of fis 2020 versus the prior year due to streamlining of the organization and other reductions in overhead costs. We will review our cost structure for continuous improvements, and we believe there are additional cost-saving opportunities. We are targeting $190 million of combined G&A and selling overhead costs for fis year 2021, and capital expenditures of no more than $20 million. As of the end of Q, we had achieved run rates that are consistent with these goals. Before I turn the call back to Scott, I'd like to discuss our fiscal year 2020 guidance. Based on our performance to date and forecasted results for the fourth quarter, we are revising our fiscal year 2020 base EBITDA guidance from continuing operations to a range of $150 million to $170 million. Also while the free cash flow trends have improved considerably year-over-year as noted previously, we still have more work to do. We now expect our fiscal year 2020 free cash flow to be between $0 and $20 million. While these revisions are disappointing, we remain confident that continued focus on the core business, cost reductions and return to customer growth will yield greater results in future periods. With that, I'll turn it over to Scott for concluding remarks.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------R. - CEO, President & Director [4]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thank you, Jim. So basically, just to come back to the message that I want to send based on the significant effort the team has put into the fixes for the company. And Jim pointed out, we've got a current credit facility, that's #1 priority for us to get that renewed. We're going to continue to do that and tighten up the cost structure. And we've now turned our attention this quarter to the restoration of our sales momentum. This is going to -- is the result of looking at new products, tweaking some of our channels and really put a lot of effort and focus -- the same focus we put on cutting costs and straightening out our bad debt and our attrition and renewal, we want to apply that to getting our sales back up. We've now turned towards sales as the next thing we're going to do to get this company back to where it was. So with that, I'll go ahead and close our prepared remarks. And we can open up for questions.================================================================================Questions and Answers--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Operator [1]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------(Operator Instructions) And our first question comes from the line of Chris Van Horn with B. Riley FBR.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Christopher Ralph Van Horn, B. Riley FBR, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [2]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I was hoping we could just touch on the guidance, and maybe you could give us some of the puts and takes between that free cash flow of $0 and $20 million as well as on the EBITDA. What has to happen to get you kind of on the higher end of that range? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [3]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, obviously, I mean fourth quarter performance will be key. In revising our guidance, we obviously looked at the actual results of Q3, which was driven by 2 things: weather, which was soft -- not so soft that it caused us to use the insurance wrap at this point, but softer than expected. We're seeing some of that trends into fourth quarter as well. - CEO, President & Director [5]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------So focus is a good word for it. And I think the other key contributor there is the -- specifically, the consumer customer count at lower levels than we would like to have. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------R. We currently acquire the bulk of our customers through -- the largest proportion of new customers are acquired through our retail sales channel, which consists of putting the kiosk with some salespeople in retail stores. So I think the key things to get in the high end of that range should be not having the soft weather we've had through most of the winter, continuing execution on the cost reduction and return to growth on the customer -- the consumer customers' side, which Scott mentioned before.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Christopher Ralph Van Horn, B. Sam's Club is probably right now our most productive channel. Riley FBR, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [4]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay. And maybe you could update us on your consumer versus commercial strategy and where you're going to put the dollars to work and how you're going to kind of gain customers. We've got contracts with other retailers that we put kiosk in. One of the things we've done on that retail channel is we look very closely and focused on what that channel is producing, not just the overall channel, but by ZIP code, what they're producing. I mean we get a different profile customer from Sam's Club than we get from certain other retailers. The ZIP codes of these retail locations matters too in terms of the profile of the customer. We are looking at expanding and contracting certain sort of in-store presence based on the quality of the customers that we've got coming in. We're looking at expanding our retail channel too with other retailers. We're in negotiations with some other retailers to try and get additional kiosks out for customers. The second channel that we've got that I have very high hopes for is what we call our digital channel. And that is the channel whereby we will attempt to bring customers either click-to-call or click-to-enrollment if it's a self-service enrollment type call. We can drive pretty low cost of acquisition in that, dependent on how it gets done. And I think we've got a lot of room to expand on that. It includes some off-line advertising as well, but it's a digital strategy to try to bring customers in and it is very targeted. The third channel that we have for residential customers that's -- is really just an inbound channel. We're trying to optimize that again with some digital click-to-call type of closes. And then we've got what's been the traditional sales channel for Just Energy over the years, which is door-to-door sales channel. We have -- that sales channel has evolved significantly over the years. And most recently, it was, what we call, first-party door-to-door. It was all employee salespeople, pay-to-base and a commission as opposed to commission only, which was traditionally what was done. That sales channel was producing costs of acquisition that were unacceptable. Our first-party door-to-door in Q3 as well as January -- I think we completed the process in January, where we took the reduction in head count and got the cost savings, but it was producing unacceptable costs of acquisition and the quality of the customers were not great either. We have transformed that with the help of some outside consulting, but also a lot of hard work by the people inside the company. We have converted that completely to a third-party channel. And we -- that is one of our campaigns is that channel, to try to reinvigorate that and get additional quality customers with low cost of acquisition, the way that we experienced in the past with, again, all the same controls that we put on sales to make sure we don't find ourself in the same place in fiscal '21 that we found ourselves in fiscal '20.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Christopher Ralph Van Horn, B. We think we can expand in that area, what's called, the PJM Interconnect. Riley FBR, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [6]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay. And then regionally, I mean do you have white spaces that look attractive to you? But we are -- we do have high hopes for other markets, too. We think there's opportunities for us to expand sales there. Or is it -- is a better strategy to go after -- go further penetrate your existing footprint? So we are -- in different of our strategies, the digital strategy works really good in a shopping type market like Texas, whereas your push strategies work better in the markets where you don't really have to shop for power and gas, if you don't want to. And we tweak our channel strategies and products based on the particular region and pricing environment.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Christopher Ralph Van Horn, B. I think you mentioned June 30 around the strategic review. Is there something that you see or initiatives that you're working on that you can comment on? - CEO, President & Director [9]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, I really can't say much about the strategic review other than what we've already said, but I would say we've -- we are active with parties right now. How are you thinking about it from a geographical standpoint? - CEO, President & Director [7]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, if you look at it geographically, you can see where we're getting the bulk of our customers. Riley FBR, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [8]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------R. If we get to June '20 and we are close with the party and need to extend it, we will probably announce that we're going to extend it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------R. We've -- the bulk of the growth is coming from the U. But we think June '20 is a good date for us to be able to have an announcement.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Operator [10]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------And our next question comes from the line of Nelson Ng with RBC Capital Markets.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Nelson Ng, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [11]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------A quick question on the preferred share dividend. So obviously, it was suspended until the debt ratios hit below, I think, 1.5x for 2 consecutive quarters. But I just wanted to kind of pick your brain on whether we would expect dividends to resume once the company is allowed to make distributions. Or do you think it would be more prudent to just conserve cash flows and not pay dividends on the press, even if you're allowed to at a later date? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [12]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, Nelson, I'll tell you the same thing I tell everybody when we talk about dividends. The Board is the body who decide the dividends on a quarterly basis based on the information available. Just to be specific on the requirements, we agree with the senior lenders that we need to meet our debt covenants for 2 consecutive quarters before we'll be able to resume payment of those dividends. As far as speculation on the timing of that repayment, I really can't say on this call.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Nelson Ng, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [13]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay. And then my next question relates to just noncore businesses. Obviously, you guys recently sold the state of Georgia assets. Are there any -- it might be just part of your strategic review, but like -- are there any obvious other states where you don't have optimal scale in, if you can comment to any degree or not? - CEO, President & Director [14]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------We are looking at that. Germany and Japan, we're in the process of trying to sell those. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------R. That is one of the things that we've started to scrutinize is, are there specific geographies that are nonscale and would be worth more in the hands of somebody else. But as long as we're talking to people who are considering the company in its entirety, we're careful not to go down the path and just selling the parts. We're talking to potential buyers on those very small properties. The ones that we have sold, there was so little interest in. Those are virtually insignificant in terms of what they would provide in the way of proceeds. But we do want to exit those noncore markets as well.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Nelson Ng, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [15]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay. And then just moving over to receivables that are over 90 days. I think currently, it stands at $53 million and it's been improving every quarter. Could you give some color as to where you think the normal level is? Or do you expect the $53 million to continue to decline every quarter? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [16]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------So Nelson, this is Jim. What I'd encourage you to look at is the 90-day balance versus the allowance recap, which is directly below which -- the allowance at this point, $74 million. The relationship between those 2 numbers is what really matters. To the extent something is 90 days or older and it's fully reserved, it -- that write-off process of netting the reserve against the receivable is more of a mechanical process. But to answer your question, we continue to clear out those amounts and send them to collections. But like I said, the key relationship is the allowance amount versus the 90 days. It's important to understand that we also reserve for other buckets as well but at much lower degree.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Nelson Ng, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [17]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay. One other question I have is, I think you mentioned that you guys have higher costs due to amortizing some of the commission costs that -- I guess that was fed into the EBITDA. But could you just clarify what type of amortization costs are included in the EBITDA line versus ones that fall below the EBITDA line? The dynamic we were trying to describe -- and we're going to look at our disclosures around this to make it easier for you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [18]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes. But selling and marketing costs have 2 components: amortization of costs from current and prior periods; and then sales overhead, which is like the cost of a salesperson who works in the company or cost of an office space that's not directly related to customer sales. So when we incur, and we incurred a lot of customer acquisition costs last year, that cost is amortized over the life, which is several years for the customer. So costs that were incurred last year are still being amortized this year. And the uplift of that is about equal and opposite to the decrease in the customer overhead we took out. So the answer to your question, all of the costs we incur for customer acquisition are amortized. They are included in the EBITDA because we think that's -- it's part of our operations. But the more interesting breakout is the fact that we've reduced the overhead associated with our sales group through structural changes to reporting and just basically taking out costs that weren't necessary to achieve the sales.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Nelson Ng, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [19]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay. In terms of free cash flow, could you just kind of run me through the definition of free cash flow? Is that essentially the base funds from operations less, I guess, preferred shares and -- preferred share dividends and any capitalized commissions? Or is that the right way of thinking about free cash flow? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [20]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The easiest way to do it is take operating cash flow in the cash flow statement minus Cap Ex. But we found that FFO -- we still disclose it because we have prior period ratios related to dividend payouts, et cetera. But the more meaningful metric is free cash flow derived from the cash flow statement. And we've seen both improvements in the operating cash flow and decreases in the Cap Ex.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Nelson Ng, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [21]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------And is that before or after working capital movements? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [22]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes. Working -- see, that's the big difference is working capital was excluded from our FFO calculation. And this is a company that has large changes in working capital in different periods. So the free cash flow would include all operating cash flow, which includes changes in working capital. And that working capital line is something we keep our eye on very close and expect to continue to improve it.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Operator [23]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------And our last question comes from the line of Raveel Afzaal with Canaccord.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Raveel Afzaal, Canaccord Genuity Corp., Research Division - Analyst [24]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------So 3 questions for me. First of all, if you do need to secure additional debt waivers -- a debt covenant waiver, when will you need to secure them by? Just looking at last quarter, they were secured in December. So should I assume that you'll secure them in March, if needed? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [25]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes. We've always -- if we see a waiver coming, we get it in place before the end of the quarter.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Raveel Afzaal, Canaccord Genuity Corp., Research Division - Analyst [26]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Got it. And now will that be correlated with you refinancing your facility or are those 2 separate? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [27]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I think we're going to be talking to the banks about both things, what our trajectory is for covenants and what our strategy is for renewing the facility. And then with respect to selling expenses, now with these new initiatives that you have in place, is there some way that you can help us quantify that? So the discussion -- obviously, the same parties will be intertwined.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Raveel Afzaal, Canaccord Genuity Corp., Research Division - Analyst [28]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Intertwined. So for the Consumer division, you had 55,000 gross adds and your costs were somewhere close to $30 million excluding the amortized portion. So it's going to kind of continue at the pace it's been continuing. And we feel like the run rate that we've achieved in the third quarter, we'll be able to achieve in the fourth quarter. Now how would you think these 2 numbers trend in Q4 as a result of these selling initiatives? And very strongly considering, Raveel, breaking that out for you guys both on a prospective and historical basis in our MD&A so you have greater transparency of those numbers.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Raveel Afzaal, Canaccord Genuity Corp., Research Division - Analyst [30]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Got it. Selling -- noncommission selling costs will remain flat to declining if we find additional ways to cut costs out of sales overhead. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [29]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes. So if I understand this correctly, though, right now, it's about $33 million for the Consumer division in terms of selling expenses and they will remain relatively flat, but your gross adds will increase. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [31]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Right. But we will end up with higher cash commissions, but the amortization will take as a lag effect to it. All the cash commissions will drop into the amortization, and it will just be amortized over time under IFRS.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Raveel Afzaal, Canaccord Genuity Corp., Research Division - Analyst [32]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Makes sense. And just finally, right now you are at $60 million in cost-saving initiatives, and terrific job on that. Sorry, I heard this 1 number, Jim, that you were talking about, $190 million in cost savings. Maybe I misunderstood.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [33]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Just to clarify, so there's -- just to give you a little background, there's kind of a sheet of paper that me, Scott and some others walk around with. And one of the numbers on that page is what we expect to spend in G&A and selling overhead. And in 2021, we expect that cash number to be $190 million, and we expect the accounting number to be relatively the same number. So that is what we actually expect to spend on G&A and the noncommission selling. And like I said, I think it's going to be necessary -- we're still evaluating our financial statement presentation. But I think it's going to be necessary to break out that number, so you can get visibility of what those actual numbers are as they happen.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Raveel Afzaal, Canaccord Genuity Corp., Research Division - Analyst [34]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Perfect. Then -- if you assume $190 million in cash expenditures, then how -- what does that mean in terms of cost savings versus the $60 million run rate where you're at right now? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [35]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes. So we talked about that recently and there's -- kind of the easiest way to look at is Q3 year-over-year variance to prior year. Remember, when we talk about the $60 million, we're talking about cost of the business. Whether it goes on the balance sheet or whether it doesn't, we're -- absent customer acquisition costs, we're counting those costs to go out the door. And one bucket is G&A, where you see about $6 million of decrease on a year-over-year basis, excluding the strategic review costs, which are not part of the core business. Then on -- as Scott mentioned, sales overhead is down about $8 million. And then Cap Ex for the year is down $24 million year-to-date. If you annualize that to $30-some-million, you're well in excess of the $60 million.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Raveel Afzaal, Canaccord Genuity Corp., Research Division - Analyst [36]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Makes sense. And then -- and so you would expect this number to stay relatively consistent to get to this $190 million in capital -- in cash expenditures or the $60 million has to go higher or -- whatever, $65 million, $70 million number that you just calculated.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CFO [37]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes. No, the math works between $60 million of savings and the expectation of $190 million of G&A and selling and [administrative] costs. And we think there's opportunities to do it.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Operator [38]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------This concludes today's question-and-answer session. And I want to thank everybody for being on the call and thank those that asked questions for their questions. I would now like to turn the call back to Scott Gahn, CEO, for any closing remarks.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------R. - CEO, President & Director [39]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Okay. We are hopeful...--------------------------------------------------------------------------------James Brown, Just Energy Group Inc. - CEO, President & Director [41]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------We're hopeful that the initiatives that we got in place for Q4 will provide us with a successful year-end. - CFO [40]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------R. We are looking forward to the challenges that we have in front of us, from the credit facility to our sales campaigns. And we'd like to thank all of our employees who are working hard to do the right things to fix our company, and we'll be updating you on the strategic review as that progresses. Thank you.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Operator [42]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Full Service Branch A full-service branch offers a mix of banking services, everyday banking, investments and lending products for both personal and commercial customers. Safety Deposit Box Below is a list of the types of safety deposit boxes available at this location. Audio Capability Cash Withdrawal Cash Advance Account Inquiry Deposit Electronic Bill Payment Paper Bill Payment Transfer Interim Statement Pin Change English French Arabic Please note that the information for Bank of Montreal, BMO In Montreal, 1554, avenue Van Horne and all other Branches is for reference only. It is strongly recommended that you get in touch with the Branch Phone: (514) 277-0404 before your visit to double-check the details and other questions you may have. Bank Holiday Opening hours / times Easter Opening hours / times Xmas / Christmas Eve / Boxing day / New years Opening hours / times Apologies, this Branch does not provide them with a holiday to the opening times. Please contact this Branch directly Phone: (514) 277-0404 to check opening hours. We have made efforts to ensure that we have the details of all Branches are up to date. It is also possible to : Edit these OPENING HOURS of Branch Bank of Montreal, BMO In Montreal, 1554, avenue Van Horne, by clicking on the link: Edit these OPENING HOURS. By clicking on the link: Edit details, to edit Street Name and number, Postcode, Telephone Number of Branch Bank of Montreal, BMO In Montreal, 1554, avenue Van Horne, write us your comments and suggestions. This will help other visitors to get more accurate results.

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Simply specify the amount and how often you want the transfers to occur (such as once a week, every 2 weeks or once a month). RBC Direct Investing Inc.*, RBC Dominion Securities Inc.* and Royal Bank of Canada are separate corporate entities which are affiliated. does not provide investment advice or recommendations regarding the purchase or sale of any securities. Investors are responsible for their own investment decisions. RBC Direct Investing is a business name used by RBC Direct Investing Inc. For a definition of an unauthorized transaction and for full details regarding the protections and limitations of the RBC Digital Banking Security Guarantee, please see your Electronic Access Agreement for personal banking clients, and the Client Card Agreement and the Master Client Agreement for business clients. This guarantee is given by Royal Bank of Canada in connection with its Online and Mobile Banking services. 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S.) account transaction history until the following day but will reflect the date of transfer. The products, services and securities referred to on this web site are only available in Canada and other jurisdictions where they may be legally offered for sale. The information on this web site should not be construed as an offer by RBC Dominion Securities to sell specific securities in any jurisdiction outside of Canada. An excess debit transaction fee may also apply depending on the deposit account used for purchase. If you purchase foreign cash using your credit card the transaction is treated as a Cash Advance. This means that Cash Advance fees apply and interest is charged from the date of your foreign cash purchase. The foreign exchange rate is final at the time you make the purchase. Depending on the branch you have chosen for pick-up, you can expect it to take anywhere from 3-10 business days to arrive at the bank. In most cases you can expect the cash to arrive in 3 business days. Maximum transaction limits may apply and are subject to change. Availability of the money will depend on the time when it is sent from RBC Royal Bank or RBC Bank. S.) account transaction history until the following day but will reflect the date of transfer. The Credit View Dashboard information is provided by Trans Union for educational purposes and is not intended to provide you with financial advice. We do not review or use Credit View Dashboard information, and Credit View Dashboard information cannot be interpreted as credit approval. As such, Royal Bank of Canada is not liable for any decision you make based on Credit View Dashboard information. For help with your financial needs and financial advice, please talk to us. 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